*** Says, 'Nigeria won't break up'
Alhaji Lawal Kaita is former governor of defunct Kaduna State and Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, chieftain. He speaks on Nigeria's centenary celebration, President Goodluck Jonathan's re-election and Igbo presidency in this interview with JAMES DANJUMA. Excerpts:
Nigeria will be celebrating 100 years of statehood early next year. What are your thoughts about the planned centenary celebration?
I think celebrating Nigeria at 100 years of statehood is quite a good idea, but if only it is done decently and prudently, not taking billions of the nation's money and unnecessarily spending it on the celebration. I support the idea of celebrating the country at 100 years but let it not be done in such a way that money is wasted unnecessarily when it can be used for better purposes.
Having been together for this long, do you see some of the challenges facing the country leading to her disintegration?
I don't think there is any issue that is threatening the unity of this country. I think Nigeria has reached a stage where disunity or breakup is not possible. It cannot happen. We are one Nigeria. I know Nigeria. I have lived in Enugu, Port Harcourt and other places for 30 to 40 years and I still have colleagues and friends in some of these places. I don't think there is any chance for the country's disintegration anytime soon. The only issue is these people from some parts of the country saying that if Goodluck Jonathan does not get re-elected, there will be no Nigeria. They are the only ones that seem to be threatening the country's unity, even though it is not that significant, otherwise there is no threat to Nigeria's unity. Despite what they say however, we would still go to elections in 2015 and we will defeat Jonathan, and Nigeria will remain entity.
There are concerns that some people might use the opportunity of the proposed national dialogue to pursue agenda that may lead to the division of the country?
As far as I'm concerned, the planned national dialogue is in no way a threat to the unity of this country. But it is nonetheless a diversion and a waste of time. If I may ask, what is wrong with Nigeria now that we would want a national dialogue? The Southern part of the country has oil, and it has its 13 per cent derivation. Now it is saying it wants 50 per cent. But we had sat down and decided the derivation percentage as I was a member of the committee that gave the 13 per cent derivation. General Shehu Yar'Adua was the chairman of the conference which gave the 13 per cent. The only problem is that they don't utilise the derivation as they should, but they still want more. I repeat, they are not utilising the money as they should and they still want more.
As a Northerner, what is your opinion about the national conference? Do you see it as beneficial to the region?
My personal opinion: I don't care whether it holds or not. As far as I'm concerned, I don't see anything wrong with Nigeria as a country now. These internal divisions we have now and then will have to exist for the next 100 years. A country like Nigeria with so many tribes and ethnic groups would have to continue living like it is doing as this is quite normal. But I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with Nigeria to warrant a national conference. I don't know what they want to table. They have set up a committee, and the committee is to come up with issues to be discussed. It is after this that we can really understand or appreciate whether it is going to benefit the North, South or the whole country in general.
There have been calls by prominent persons of Igbo extraction for the country to give Igbos a shot at the presidency. What are your thoughts about this?
I love it; I love the idea of an Igbo president. In fact, I had even wanted it to happen before now. As you would recall, we reached an agreement within the PDP for power rotation between the South and the North. And Southern Nigeria includes the Igbos. We agreed that the South rule for four years then it is rotated. In effect, we were so generous that the North agreed to start the power rotation with the South, and Obasanjo ruled for eight years. He then handed over to late Umaru Yar'Adua who ruled for only two years before his death. Jonathan came in and completed the remaining two years. He contested and will be in office for four years, making it six years. If he goes for another term that would make it 10 years; but the constitution provides only for eight years of two terms, no more. But they want to distort the constitution so that they can continue in office.
But those close to the president have been insisting he has the right to contest in 2015?
He has the right of course. As the constitution says, every Nigeria of his age and so on, is qualified; we agree that he is qualified. But it is decency that we are talking about. There is what we call honour and decency. Even if you have the right and you are qualified, you should be able to have the decency to know that if you do this you will be offending a large section of the country. Why should a minority do 10 years in office? What qualities has he shown Nigerians?
What about the threat by one or two Nigerians that Jonathan must win in the next general elections or there would be consequences?
Most of us know that such threats are empty and are of no substance. What that person was saying is nonsense lies. He can't say anything on Election Day because even in Bayelsa, the president may end up not having majority votes. From what I am gathering from some of the state governors, even Bayelsa is not certain to vote for Jonathan.
But one of such persons that made the threat recently hails from the same state with the president?
It's all political propaganda and useless talking. There are threats that you people should take seriously and one of them is not the one coming from Bayelsa. To say that there will be war or there would be no peace if Jonathan fails to get re-elected is nonsense. He hasn't got the means to carry out his threat.
The All Progressive Congress, APC, has been visiting the G7 governors to woo them into the party. Do you see this as affecting the fortunes of the PDP in 2015 in the event the G7 governors move into APC?
Of course if these seven governors join the APC it would definitely affect the fortunes of the PDP in 2015. To lose control of seven states is not a small thing in politics. And I must add that Katsina is supposed to be part of the issue since it is 80 per cent anti-Jonathan. I know Katsina will not vote for Jonathan should he contest in the next elections, including Kano. But Kano is already in the G-7, Katsina is not.
The Igbo have been complaining of marginalisation especially, not being given the opportunity to produce a president...
I don't think Igbos have been marginalised. The first president of this country was an Igbo man, although it was ceremonial then but he was still the president of Nigeria. The civil war may have affected the mentality of Nigerians generally against the Igbos as they had attempted to secede from the country. They had hurt so many Nigerians at the time. But I don't think it is contributory to their not being able to produce a president. The whole thing I think is with the Igbos. They nearly had a chance when we proposed Dr. Alex Ekwueme for the position. I think he was the only outstanding Igbo at the time even up till today. Ekwueme was my political boss and we were proposing he became president at that time.
The Central Bank of Nigeria, CBN, Governor, Sanunsi Lamido will be vacating office in June 2014. But there have been reports that Nigerians have been poorer under his watch despite his achievements?
Before you asked me the question, I have always considered Sanusi as a mercurial and very effective CBN Governor. I agree with you that people have become poorer under his watch. But, is it because of his policies or is it because of Federal Government's policies? The Central Bank would only give money when asked to do so. So, I would not say the poverty thing is due to the fault of the CBN but that of the Federal Government. I will also add that the poverty situation in the country is one of the reasons why so many people hate the Jonathan- led administration. People, Northerners in particular, don't like Jonathan because they have become poorer.
Do you have any suggestions to government on the selection of a new CBN Governor?
I don't know much about finance so I cannot give a specific suggestion on the issue. But I believe that the government has enough competent people within and outside the banking system who can effectively manage the CBN after Sanusi leaves office.
To me, i believe President Jonathan has spent his second term as the president of Nigeria. I do not understand the agitation for his re election bids.