NGF crisis is about tenure elongation of President Jonathan –Junaid Mohammad

[Mirror]

• Says Jonah Jang not qualified to hold public office in Nigeria

Dr. Junaid Mohammad is the Convener, Concerned Northern Politicians, Academics, Professionals and Businessmen. In this interview with AYODELE OJO, he speaks on the leadership crisis rocking the Nigerian Governors' Forum, NGF, the desperation of President Goodluck Jonathan for re-election and his face-off with Governor Rotimi Amaechi, among other national issues. Excerpts:

What is your take on the leadership crisis rocking the Nigerian Governors' Forum, NGF?

As far as I am concerned, the crisis amounts to much about nothing. First, the so-called Nigerian Governors' Forum, NGF, is a voluntary organisation of the governors to discuss what is supposedly common to them. The whole thing amounts to nothing. Second, the Nigerian constitution which is the true law of the land does not make provision for the so-called Governors' Forum; it has no power, it has no privileges, and it has no prerogatives.

Nobody can persuade anybody that should the government of the day at the national level decide to do one thing and the Governors' Forum decide to do another thing, what the governors decide must prevail over what the government of the day decided. As far as I am concerned, the issue amounts to so much about so little. But the crisis in the Governors' Forum is about the tenure elongation project of President Goodluck Jonathan.

Rightly or wrongly, which I believe is wrong, his handlers and cronies around him and those who believe his government must continue indefinitely, are the ones engineering the crisis.

But somehow, he has to continue to be the president of this country whether or not the people like him, whether or not the people appreciate his performance, whether he has done well or not, whether he is competent to hold the position of the president beyond 2015 or not. And the anxiety to do that is what is happening in the country. This will overheat the polity.

If he succeeds, which I don't see coming, the country will be so badly hurt and it will take another decade or two decades to heal. So, what is happening now are the skirmishes in the struggle for post-2015.

But there is an easy way out; Jonathan should approach the issue with a greater sense of responsibility, he should approach the issue in the spirit of the constitution of Nigeria; he should approach the issue in the spirit of the constitution of his party which provides for zoning and in the spirit of his 2010 single term agreement with the governors elected on the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, to which he signed.

Apart from this, there is nothing to talk about this so-called Nigerian Governors' Forum and it is only for the tenure elongation project of Jonathan. And when former President Olusegun Obasanjo tried the tenure elongation, the country was badly hurt.

But how do you see the partisanship of the Presidency in the NGF crisis; I mean in recognising the factional chairman, Jonah Jang against Rotimi Amaechi?

Apparently there is somehow a strange relationship between President Goodluck and Governor Jang.

That tends to explain the late close relationship between the two of them, but if knowledge were to be given consideration, and giving the way Governor Jang has governed Plateau so far; Plateau State is the most highly unstable state out of the 36 states in Nigeria.

There is nothing he has done in Plateau other than to unleash sectarian violence on the state. In a sane society, Jang has no moral right to hold any public office. I had expected the Presidency and the PDP to have put a better candidate in terms of track record than Amaechi; clearly Jang does not measure up to Amaechi.

Also, in a country like Nigeria, peace is very important; because without peace, there would be no development and without development, I can't see how the economy or even the society can move forward. I am of the view, I may be wrong, that all Nigerians want development economically, politically, and socially.

All these are impossible unless people holding sensitive government positions are decent, trustful and willing to do one or more good thing for the country which I don't think Jang can do. When you look at his antecedents; where he is coming from, he is not that competent.

Why must someone insist on him being the chairman of the NGF? I don't understand. Officers before Jang are saying it louder that the man is lousy, incompetent and irresponsible. Recently, the former Defence Minister, Gen. Domkat Bali gave an interview to one of the national newspapers where he said Jang knows nothing, but Jang believes he knows everything more than anybody including the politics of Plateau, the area and various communities. So, President Jonathan has a reason in fighting all of these people.

If you look at most of the appointments in his government and party, he has preference for mediocre; he does not like people who are smart, who are very serious people, who will be competent leaders for the party and for the government.

But Jang has been a military governor and a retired general; are you saying he is not competent enough to hold republic office or what?

We are not talking about the military regime; we are talking about democracy. In democracy, a track record is important. When you are talking about a track record in a democracy; Jang was a participant in a coup detat and for that he was rewarded with the position of a military governor.

As a military governor, he couldn't cope in the old Benue and was later sent to Gongola State. He was a lousy and divisive military governor. If we have been practising true democracy, the fact that he participated in a coup would have disqualified him from being a governor in a democratic setting. But that is Nigeria for you. Many people who were serious coup plotters like David Mark and others are holding important positions in a democracy.

At the Presidential dinner last Wednesday, the security aides of the President prevented Amaechi from greeting him. How do you feel with the development?

It shows the president is irresponsible and it is very childish; no security man in his right mind would ever have prevented a governor from greeting the President. So, the security man who did that is not to be blamed; he did that base on specific instructions from the president. So, the President behaved childish and irresponsibly. Hav-ing said that, if in a country of 160 million people the President believes everybody must agree with him on everything; then something must be wrong. Even in your own family there are few people who will disagree with you.

Does that make them your enemies? Even you shake hands with your enemies. If you disagree with somebody you try to persuade him, you don't go out of your way to diminish him. Because by diminishing Amaechi, you are diminishing the five million people of Rivers State and you cannot afford to do that in a democracy. Look, we have to be very careful to nurture our democracy. If the President doesn't want to shake hands with Amaechi, he shouldn't have invited him for a dinner. What happened shows that President Jonathan is small-minded. That attitude is not good for a president of a country with population of over five million people.

The First Lady seems to have taken the front row in the fight against Amaechi and has literarily relocated to Port Harcourt, Rivers State.

I have issued a statement in which I condemned the activities of the First Lady. Dame Patience Jonathan comes from Okrika in Rivers State. But perhaps because of her limitation in education and exposure, she is behaving this way.

Our constitution does not recognise the position or office of First Lady. How do you take away the security of a state from the governor and hand it over to the First Lady?

The report now is that the State Commissioner of Police withdraws security of the government officials at will. The question now is: who is in charge of the state. If Dame Jonathan wants to be governor, she should contest for the position; there can't be two captains in a ship. She should be restrained either by her husband or by the law enforcement agents.

How do you see the involvement of the Police Commissioner in Rivers State in the crisis?

It is irresponsible of him to dabble into politics. It is only an irresponsible police officer who will be listening to the dictates of a woman who has no recognition in the constitution. So, he should be called to order.

And I call on MD Abubakar, the Inspector General of Police, to call this man to order if he doesn't want to leave the police the way Hafiz Ringim left the police in a very disgraceful manner. The law must be upheld and neither the Inspector-General of Police nor the Commissioner of Police must be made to be above the law and they should call the man to order because he is behaving in a very disgraceful and embarrassing manner. The way the First Lady is behaving and interfering in the affairs of Rivers State is very unfortunate.

You literally said the First Lady is an illiterate, but she is a university graduate.

Oh my God! I don't think you can think this way, Ayodele. First and foremost giving the way Nigerian education had been bastardised, the fact that you are a graduate does not make you educated.

As we say during our undergraduate days, you can go through the university but the university might not actually go through you. So, if I call you illiterate, it does not mean you cannot write or read because it is behaviour and behavioural pattern that determines whether you behave like an educated person or like an illiterate person. As far as I am concerned, the First Lady behaves like an illiterate person.

So, for all I care, she is an illiterate. And by the way, I knew her when I was in Port Harcourt. So, the fact that she is a graduate does not make her literate. For the fact that I have many d egrees does not make me an educated person; it is my behaviour, my manner of thinking, my mode of interacting with people, my respect for other people's opinion and for rule of law, that is what make me an educated person and not the university degrees. And I am surprised that at your level, you are talking this way.

How much of the First Lady do you know?

It is not important. How important is that?

Because you said you knew her.

Everybody who knew me except you, perhaps knows that I was in OMPADEC between 1992 and 1993. And everybody knew she was coming around to ask for small small contracts. Jonathan himself was recruited through my effort as an Assistant Director at OMPADEC. Who is she when you compare my status with her and that of her husband? Who is she in politics? The fact that we are having interview does not mean you should insult me.

I'm not insulting you. I only want to know how much of her you know.

What I said is in public record, so I don't bloody care about her. When I graduated in 1975, where was she?

Earlier, you said NGF crisis is more of post-2015 and you said the President is also refusing to honour the pact he signed in 2010 with the governors about one term. The Presidency has denied the existence of any pact, so also Chief Edwin Clark even when Governor Babangida Aliyu insists of the pact. How do you reconcile this?

Is it my duty to reconcile what the governors have said because it was not only the governor of Niger State who said there was a pact; the governor of Jigawa State has also said there was a pact. And none of the governors had denied there was a pact. I don't know if you have become the agent of the government. The president has not denied it. So, I don't know the game you are trying to play.

Some of his aides like the Special Adviser on Political Matters, Ahmed Gulak, have denied the pact.

I repeat there was a pact and that pact was written. The fact that one Gulak said there was no pact does not amount to the President saying there was no pact. Edwin Clark was not at the meeting; so how can he say there was a pact or there was no pact? Edwin Clark does not have a position in the Presidency, so when did he became spokesman for the Presidency. I have been in this game for over 40 years, so I should no what I'm saying.

Clark even described Governor Aliyu as a liar over the one-term pact.

Excuse me, please. Edwin Clark cannot speak on behalf of the Presidency. He can use whatever gutter language he likes. For the fact that he is denying it does not mean that the pact doesn't exist.

So you believe the President must honour the pact?

Yes, that is what we are saying. And if that pact does not exist, he should come out and say it does not exist. Then, Nigerians will be left with the option of determining his fate.

Former Defence Minister, Gen. T.Y. Danjuma recently lamented the leadership failure in the country, saying that Nigeria has not been able to move forward because of this. What do you think about leadership crisis in Nigeria and what is the way forward?

First of all, do you admit that there is leadership failure in Nigeria?

Yes, I admit.

Alright, when you talk about leadership, you are talking about political leadership. If you are talking about political leadership in Nigeria today, who is the number one leader?

President Jonathan.

So, if you want to consider what Danjuma said and I know him very well, Danjuma does not mince words; there has been political leadership failure in Nigeria and the number one political leader in the country that has failed is the President. And if the leader has failed, what do you do with him? If you fail in something you should be removed. In agreeing with what General Danjuma said, there are two options open to us: one, in a free and fair election, you vote Goodluck Jonathan out.

Two, if he is becoming a threat, what you should do is to get the National Assembly to impeach him. I know that General Danjuma knows what he is talking about. He knows more than you and I. General Danjuma, as a true patriot, has put his life on the line to save the corporate existence of Nigeria and I think people should listen to him carefully and draw a rightful conclusion from what he said.

Arewa Consultative Forum, ACF, recently came out rejecting President Jonathan for 2015 and even accused him of dividing the North. Do you share this sentiment?

Don't they have the right to reject Jonathan? What is wrong in rejecting Jonathan? I rejected him before he contested the last general elections, so that is not new. ACF speaks for those who are in ACF; they don't speak for the North or me. I have never been a member of ACF and I will never be a member of ACF. I have my group and I have never claimed to speak for the whole North and if ACF claims they are speaking for the whole North, it is a lie because they are not speaking for me.

In their claim that there are attempts to divide the North subtly or otherwise, that is very true because billions of naira are changing hands, people are being giving appointments because they believe that the North should be humiliated and that is the main reason why all those governors who are having some discordant views about the North like the ones in Bauchi, Governor Isa Yuguda and that one in Katsina, Ibrahim Shema. They are doing whatever they are doing on behalf of the president.

How about the proposal that all elections should be conducted in one day in 2015?

As someone with over 40 years experience in politics, I think that even using internet, computer or supper human effort or whatever, you cannot conduct election in one day in a very big country like Nigeria. Indians hold their elections in about 30-40 days and nobody doubts the fact that India has the best democracy in the world; bigger than Nigeria with the population of about 1.2 billion. In Nigeria, holding all elections in one day is not feasible. The last election was a disaster.

INEC recently banned political campaigns ahead of 2015. Even at that there are series of endorsements for the president. Do you think it is right to ban campaigns now?

As far as I am concerned, the part of the electoral law which states that there should be no electioneering prior to 90 days or thereabout is a stupid provision. First and foremost, politics itself is about continuous campaign. Anytime you do something and you imagine that what you do will be appreciated by people, you are campaigning whether you say it or not. And the whole idea of government going round to commission projects, going to do this or that or even travelling out of the country to go and contact some foreign countries for new technology, new people and investments abroad or thereabout, you are publicising the government.

That is also a form of campaign. So, when you talk of campaign, it depends on who is talking. As far as I am concerned, INEC is talking nonsense because they are made up of agents of the PDP, who don't know anything about politics because if it knew anything about politics we won't be in the mess we are now as a country. With the directive, are they saying that the President should not appear on television again? Would INEC stop spokesmen of the President from talking?

You mean Gulak or the attack dog, Doyin Okupe, should not speak about the government and its activities? Or you mean the Minister of Information should not speak or appear on the NTA? It is a stupid law. And that aspect of the law that should not be there should be expunged by the National Assembly. Once you do that, you give everybody a level playing ground, which is very important in politics

What is your take on the state of security in the country as regards the state of emergency in Adamawa, Borno and Yobe states?

I will rather ask that you ask the people from Yobe, Adamawa and Borno states what they are encountering and if it has solved the problem. As far as I am concerned, the military is not telling us the truth. You will see that the state of emergency was declared for the purpose of manipulating information for people to think that we have security now because nothing is happening. There is no improvement in relation to the declaration of the state of emergency. The reality on the ground is that there is no improvement in the security situation.

Besides, security is not about the prevalence of violence. Are you comfortable moving around; is your house secured, are the children, patients in hospitals, schools and other higher institutions of learning in the country secured? There is no security. Nigeria has never seen this kind of lawlessness since the time of the civil war.

Your party has been deregistered by INEC; are you considering merging with other parties?

That decision would be taken by the leadership of the party. I don't take such decision. When INEC was planning to deregister us, they gave us pass mark as the most democratic party in the country in terms of internal democracy. I know Prof. Attahiru Jega has taken the deregistration of my party personal because I have been attacking him because I don't think he is competent for the job. I have a stake in Nigeria and I have spent my entire working life in public life.

One had expected you to be one of the major supporters of President Jonathan given your relationship with him, especially in helping him to secure a job. Why are you not supporting him?

I have no regrets recommending him for the position of an Assistant Director of Ecology at the OMPADEC. One, I believed that he was minimally qualified. Two, he comes from an educationally disadvantaged area in the old Rivers State. I believed people who come from that area ought to be given consideration when it came to recruitment in OMPADEC. So, I recommended him for the post of an Assistant Director of Ecology. The chairman of the commission then was Kalabari; Ijaws and Kalabaris are like first cousins, he wanted to make his brother the Assistant Director of Ecology but I opposed to it.

So, that is the end of the story, my own candidate, Goodluck Ebele Jonathan became the Assistant Director and later he became something greater but do not blame me for what he turned out to be: deputy governor, governor, vice president and president. I recommended him and I stand by my recommendation. Don't expect me to look for favour from Jonathan. I criticise him base on facts, principle and out of pure conscience.

National Mirror