PDP crisis: Police now instrument of politics in Rivers –Senator Abe

[Mirror]

Senator Magnus Ngei Abe (Rivers East) is the Chairman, Senate Committee on Petroleum (Downstream). The former member of the Rivers State House of Assembly, one-time Information Commissioner and former Secretary to the State Government (SSG), in this interview with GEORGE OJI, speaks on the crisis in Rivers State, the effort of the Senate to resolve the face-off between President Goodluck Jonathan and Governor Rotimi Amaechi, and why the constitution amendment committee proposed six-year single tenure for the president and governors. Excerpts:

 

Your state, Rivers, has been in the news recently for the wrong reasons, particularly regarding the face-off between your Governor Rotimi Amaechi and President Goodluck Jonathan?

I don't know of any face-off with the President. There are those who are taking advantage of their political ambitions and desires to create a situation of crisis in the South-South and I want to say clearly that having problem in the South-South is not in anybody's interest. It is certainly not in the interest of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP); it is certainly not in the interest of the President and my own interest.

So, anybody who genuinely wants PDP to succeed and anybody who genuinely wants the President to succeed will not be trying to create bush fires where there is no need for it. I don't want to say anything that will pre-empt the efforts that the Senate is making to reach out to all parties and allow peace to reign in Rivers State but I will like to say very, very clearly that you can have disagreements, we are politicians and there is no way we can all agree to everything but that does not give the right to some of the things that are going on in Rivers State.

It gives nobody such right and it will not work in the interest of anybody. I just want, at this point, to be part of trying to look for solutions that will allow politicians to disagree, play their politics without playing politics with the lives of people. How do you compromise the Police to the extent that is going on in Rivers State? We have talked about people saying that they don't want State Police because it could be abused by politicians. That is what is going on in Rivers State. Will even a State Police do what is being done in Rivers State today? I don't want to go there.

The PDP caucus in the Senate met and took a decision to set up a committee to look for a political solution and I stand by the decision but I would like to repeat that what is going on in River State is not in the interest of the South-South, it is not in the interest of the President and definitely not in the interest of Rivers people. I will say that and I will say it anywhere.

Some people have alleged that Abuja politicians are the ones fanning the embers of discord in Rivers. How true is this insinuation?

The issue of Rivers' PDP as far as I am concerned is neither here nor there.

Like I said, people are politicians; and this is the season when people are looking for whatever. But that by itself wouldn't be a problem. Any time there is transition, politicians break into camps and try to do and undo; that is normal and shouldn't be a problem. What I am against is the level to which this is being allowed to degenerate for whatever reason.

That is what I am against. Outside of that, people are free to play their politics and whatever they want to do within the law, it is fine by me; they have the right. If people want to look at the truth and stand the truth on its head, it's okay.

The court recently ousted the Rivers State executive of the PDP.

We all went for a congress, everybody knew it, it was televised, we spoke after the congress, then somebody can get up to deny something at that level. There are things I would be afraid to do because when my children grow up, I don't want people to say 'this is how your father was'.

So, I won't do it but if people can do it for the sake of power, I have nothing against it but what I am saying is that they should not set the state on fire.

Don't use the Police as an instrument of politics; don't do the things that can take the lives of ordinary people and create confusion that you might not be able to come out from.

That is what I am saying. Everybody is free to play politics and quarrel and make up but let us draw lines that will allow people who are not politicians to be able to live their normal lives because the way we are going now, people who are not politicians would be caught up in the crossfire and that is not the kind of leadership we should be providing. That is the much I am prepared to say.

As a participant in the congress, at what point did Dan Orbih- led committee produce two lists?

There were no two lists, there was total peace until we saw the court summons.

The list they brought to the PDP secretariat when the Felix Obuah-committee was inaugurated was signed by Dan Orbih.

Yes, he did. That is not an issue. I don't care as far as people can sleep with what they do. I know that at the end of the day, outside of man, we will answer to God. So, I am not worried by what people do; all I am saying is that whatever we are doing, we should do it in such a way that we are conscious that the things we do can affect ordinary people who are not involved to the extent we are doing.

Let us not do it in such a way that can bring children out, we start throwing bombs, we bring in the Police and compromise the Police. As we are now, I don't know the kind of security that Rivers people can get.

Rivers State has invested more in the Nigerian Police than any other government; we have put in more in trying to create public order in Rivers State than any other government.

I challenge the Police to disprove what I have said. So, how can we at this time because of politics turn the Police around to become an instrument of disorder in Rivers State of all places? How do we do such things?

Those are the things I am concerned about. For politics, it is in the hands of God, at the end of the day, regardless of what we do and what we did not do, what will be will be, but all I am saying is that we should take a deep breath, calm down, look at the interest of Nigeria, look at the interest of the South-South and more importantly, look at the interest of the President. Is this the kind of problem we should be creating for the President at this time, with the situation in Nigeria, right in the South-South? Should we be doing that?

Are you saying that the crises have had adverse affect on governance in River State?

I am not in Rivers State. It is having adverse effect even here in Abuja. So, that question should be directed to people in Rivers State, but I don't know how you can have a situation where the House of Assembly was sealed and all sorts of things are going on and you ask if it is having adverse effect. Of course, it will have adverse effect on governance and the whole idea of what is going on is to create adverse effect on governance.

The idea is to keep Governor Rotimi Amaechi busy and it is being done in a wrong way. It is not being done in a way that I think actually helps in bringing about solutions that we need in the region.

So, what would you say is the way out?

Like I said, I am a senator, a member of PDP Senate caucus and last Tuesday, the caucus took a decision to set up a committee to look into the matter. I am confident in the committee and I don't want to say anything that will look like I am pre-empting the effort the Senate is making. I think they will be able to find the way forward because there is no problem that doesn't have solution. So, for now, I have confidence in the Senate's effort and I want to urge all parties to give peace a chance and cooperate with the committee.

What is your view regarding the State of Emergency recently declared by the President in Borno, Yobe and Adamawa states? The President as the Commander in Chief gets his briefing and is privy to some information that the rest of us actually will not have. So, I don't think it will be proper for anybody to guess how he takes his decision based on advice he is getting from security chiefs. Giving the level of information available to him, he took the decision at the time he felt that the situation called for it and I would not like to second guess that. What I would like to say is to call on all Nigerians not to look at the issue going on today in parts of this country, as a political issue. It is not a PDP matter; it is not a Jonathan matter. Nigeria is under threat and we need to take that very seriously. All Nigerians should take it seriously. As we speak now, the constitutional freedoms guaranteed to all citizens of this country are no longer being enjoyed by millions of Nigerians. The freedom of movement, freedom of association, freedom of worship and freedom of religion guaranteed by the constitution are not enjoyed by millions of Nigerians. Even the right to life guaranteed by constitution is no longer there, people are taking people's lives with reckless abandon. So, as far as possible, we may have issues with others when it comes to politics but in this particular matter, I think that all Nigerians need to rally together and stamp out this evil. We should do what we can to bring it under control. I would like to support our troops and all the security agencies who are putting their lives at risk to get this under control and I think we should not only support them, we should also honour them. Again, people have talked about the amnesty and the state of emergency and I want to say that the two issues are not related. As far as I am concerned, the state of emergency does not in any way affect the issue of amnesty. Anybody who is conducting himself in a manner that is contrary to public order is not interested in amnesty. Anybody who is interested in amnesty will not be conducting himself in a manner that is contrary to public order; he would be talking to the amnesty committee. So, both issues can go together at the same time and I want to call on all those, who are affected or involved to take advantage of the amnesty instead of creating a situation that calls for resolution by force. You think the amnesty can still work with the state of emergency? I don't think the two issues are related directly. If somebody wants to take advantage of the amnesty, the option is still open. If people don't take advantage of the amnesty and are gathering somewhere to make bombs and carry out attacks, then, the emergency powers would be available to security agencies to deal with them.

Can the state of emergency resolve the issues?

I believe that leadership is a contest of ideas. Nobody knows everything. As far as I know, in government, when you have a situation where there is breakdown of law and order, where people cannot obey the law and where people are not guided by normal norms of what to do and what not to do, the option opened to the government is to call in the army or the security forces to go there and restore order by force.

The other option is to try to dialogue with whosoever is doing that to stop it. So, if anybody has a third option that has not been revealed, he is free to contribute his ideas. If you think this one will not work, say what will work, all we want is peace in Nigeria. If I know of any other option that is better than the options available now, I would gladly say it right here – that we should not be doing this, this is what we should be doing.

But if people don't have contrary or better ideas and this is the one that is on the table that we know, then, we should support it to make it work. Right now, I cannot think of what we can do other than try to restore order in these areas by the means that are available to the Nigerian state.

You are a member of the Senate Committee on Constitution Amendment that recommended six-year single tenure for elected executive officers. What informed this decision?

I am not authorised to brief the press on the activities of the Constitution Amendment Committee but what I would say is that the committee is working in the interest of all Nigerians and we are looking at the problems of our constitutional democracy and trying to look for solutions that will solve the challenges that we have, based on our experience so far. Part of the reasons people advocate sixyear single tenure democracy is that they actually think that if you look at our current democracy, out of the eight possible years that a President gets from the two terms of four years each, more than four years of it is lost to politics.

You spend the last two years of the first term preparing for the next elections after spending one year if you are new trying to learn the ropes, then you spend the next two years of the other term doing the succession battles. So, a lot of real time that could actually be spent in trying the much people can achieve is lost, a lot of resources are also wasted in that effort.

So, to save the country that expense and rigour, if we have a single tenure, you come in, use one year to learn what you want to learn, you have like three or four years to give your best undistracted and at the end of the day, you leave. I think the country will get more value. That is what a lot of people think and that is why people are advocating that.

There is nothing personal about it; it is just a question of trying to find what is best for Nigeria. And I want to make the point that any project needs a minimum number of labourers to get the desired result. If you want to build this house now and they say you need 10 people to build it in one year, if you want to do it in six months, you need 20 people, if you want to do it in 10 years, you need five people but you must have people to do it.

The problem I am beginning to see with the Nigerian project is that we need to look for enough Nigerians to deliver it. This project cannot be delivered by Hausa people, it cannot be delivered by South-South, it cannot be delivered by Christians, it cannot be delivered by Muslims, it cannot be delivered by Yoruba people.

This project can only be delivered by Nigerians who are prepared to put the interest of Nigeria, one Nigeria and one nation under God, over and above every other interest. It needs leaders, who must be ready to sacrifice, not only their own but even those around them in order to be able to achieve a dream of a prosperous and united Nigeria and if we cannot find enough people, we will not be able to deliver the project.

The question we all need to ask is 'can we find enough Nigerians to deliver this project properly? 'We all need to begin to look for them, people who will be able to do the right thing when there are challenging times.

So, that is what I think we need to look at and anybody who is looking at the constitution needs to look at it from that perspective; don't start looking at how it serves the interest of the North or the West; you cannot develop the North without the West, you cannot develop the South without the North, it is one country. If Nigeria will work, let us make it work, if it will not work, let us have the courage to admit that it is not working and begin to review our situation.

There is a new amendment to the EFCC Act, which says that if you steal money and convicted, you return 100 per cent of what you are convicted for?

Part of the problems I have with this whole issue of corruption is that the problem of Nigeria goes beyond corruption; the problem is that we have unproductive economy. And so, when people steal money, it doesn't go into the economy, it doesn't produce more money, it is not taxed, it dies. When they steal, they take it abroad and hide it in banks abroad, they take it to their villages, they build mansions that produce nothing and once they leave government, they start looking for where to get money to maintain their mansions and maintain their lifestyle from government.

All these people struggling to say they are big men and they have money are the people pulling down the country. But if the money people get is invested in business, they create jobs and pay taxes, the next person who comes will still have something to steal and still invest, the economy will not die but when people steal this money and it is not used for anything productive, that is why our own corruption is so dangerous and deadly.

Part of the things I have been telling my colleagues is that we should try to look for some amendments that will force people to bring all the money that is kept in foreign banks back into the Nigerian economy and part of the ways we can do that is to create some amendments that will offer some reprieve for money that is invested and is producing wealth within the economy and is contributing to the wealth of the country by paying taxes.

I am saying that anybody who has money and has invested it and the money is producing profit in this country, paying taxes, employing people, no matter where the person got the money from, he should be entitled to some reprieve if he has a problem.

That way, people won't carry money and hide it in Dubai, investing in property in England; they don't have to be afraid to keep their money here. For me, leadership is a context of ideas; we should be creative, if one solution is not working, we should think of another solution.

We should not be ashamed to say what we think because we think nobody will agree with us, let it be on record that you have said something and it was not accepted.

National Mirror